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Dual Meet Tie Break Criteria - discussion

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Dual Meet Tie Break Criteria - discussion

Postby The Doc » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:45 am

For the third time this season I watched a High School dual meet match came down to the 6th Tie Break Criteria: Total number of FIRST points scored: Parkland-Easton match EPC #2 "A" vs #2 "B".

I THINK I have this correct:
1) In the FIRST period, the FIRST points scored can be: Penalty (1) or Take Down (2)...
2) In SUBSEQUENT periods, the FIRST points scored can be: Penalty (1), Escape (1), Take Down (2), Reversal (2), or Near-Fall (2 or 3).
3) In the event a wrestler is PINNED directly from a control position (start of the second or third periods) without intervening referee's scoring a Near-fall, there is a ZERO point total awarded.

Therefore:
1) FIRST POINTS SCORED must be at least total of 14 pts (unless someone is PINNED directly in the 2nd or 3rd periods without intervening Near-fall points registered by the Ref).
That is – EVERY match HAS to have a FIRST point scored (except as pinned): even if they all ended 1-0, there would be 14 total FIRST POINTS… and there CANNOT be more than 42 first points – 14 matches each with a 3NF scored first…
2) Given the importance of FIRST POINTS scored for both an INDIVIDUAL'S bout in the Ultimate Ride-Out/Tie Break as well as for the TEAM'S Dual Meet Tie Break criteria, one would expect that (in general, assuming the ESCAPE is easier than a TD/NF/R, not always true) every Coach would have every Wrestler to take DEFENSIVE position for the SECOND period...

Pennsylvania/NFHS PIAA Tie Breaker Criteria for Dual Meets:

In the event of a tie score at the end of a dual meet the following tie-breaker rules will be used:
1. Least number of team points deducted for flagrant or unsportsmanlike conduct.
2. Greater number of matches won.
3. Greater number of points for fall, defaults, forfeits or disqualifications.
4. Greater number of points for technical falls.
5. Greater number of points for major decisions.
6. Greater number of first points scored.
7. Greater number of points for near-falls.
8. Greater number of takedowns.
9. Greater number of reversals.
10. Greater number of escapes.
11. Fewer penalties for stalling.
12. Fewer stall warnings.
13. Fewer number of points for other infractions.
14. Flip of a disk.
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Re: Dual Meet Tie Break Criteria - discussion

Postby Gorgias » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:37 pm

Actually, the first point scored in the second or third (or, in OT, the 5th, 6th, 7th) could be a 4 point nearfall, i.e. a 3-point nearfall with a scream or obvious injury.

I think many of us remember the state dual tournament where a Team (Central Mountain?) won in the Semis (quarters?) over (Nazareth?) by forfeiting the final two bouts, instead of putting out 2 guys that would likely have been taken down before getting pinned, thus saving 4 first points and winning the meet. The rule should be adjusted so that for tiebreaker purposes, the team receiving the forfeit, will receive 4 first points (or at least 2 or 3. Possibly this tweak should also apply to defaults that ocurr before any points are scored.

The 14th Tiebreaker , Flip of a Coin, should be changed to 15. 14 should be the lower total weight of the competitors for each team.
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Re: Dual Meet Tie Break Criteria - discussion

Postby Gorgias » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:01 pm

The Doc wrote:

2) Given the importance of FIRST POINTS scored for both an INDIVIDUAL'S bout in the Ultimate Ride-Out/Tie Break as well as for the TEAM'S Dual Meet Tie Break criteria, one would expect that (in general, assuming the ESCAPE is easier than a TD/NF/R, not always true) every Coach would have every Wrestler to take DEFENSIVE position for the SECOND period...



About 8 years ago, when there were no 5th-6th period non-ultimate tiebreakers, just "the tiebreaker" in the 5th period, a 215 pounder from my school suffered the following. A scoreless first period, the choice by his opponent at the start of the second(three time because of a coin toss in an individual tournament), an escape by his opponent, followed by 5 minutes of stalling, (although he escaped at the start of the 3rd), he then lost when his opponent chose down in the tiebreaker and escaped. seems to me that for the UTB, if points have been scored only because of escapes (2 or 4), there should be a new coin toss in the UTB.

And if there are subsequent non escapes scores, UTB choice should go to the first non-escape point.
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Re: Dual Meet Tie Break Criteria - discussion

Postby The Doc » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:55 am

Thanks for the "4 pointer"!

This situation seems like an obvious place for a rethinking of the Rules....
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