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PIAA finals - no longer alone

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Re: PIAA finals - no longer alone

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:00 pm

The argument that this move was made to speed things up is such a STUPID one! Wrestling all placement matches for a weight at the same time does not speed up the tournament. If anything, it SLOWS DOWN the tournament.

Here's why:

1) All final round wrestling begins at the same time as the championship finals used to. I'm a AA guy, so I'll use the AA schedule as an example. This year's final round of wrestling, including all consi matches, is slated to begin at 2:00 PM. That was when the AA championship finals (matches for 1st and 2nd only) began in previous years.

2) I'm guessing that the next weight class will be held until all matches in the previous weight class are completed. For example, 113 pounders will not begin wrestling until ALL 106 pound matches have finished.

3) What happens if the championship final match in a weight class ends before one of the consolation matches? Granted, the championship final is longer, at 2-2-2, than the consolation matches, at 1-2-2; but it certainly wouldn't be unusual for a championship final to finish before a consi match --- there could be a lot of blood time in one of the consi matches, for instance. Then, we'd all have to wait for that consi match to end before we could move on to the next weight class. Previously, the next championship final could begin immediately following completion of the previous championship final. Bottom line --- in this situation, you've ADDED wait time instead of reducing it.

4) What happens if there's a fairly quick pin in the championship final? Again, it's unlikely that this would happen in the PIAA finals, but it certainly is not outside the realm of possibility. If that fall occurs, let's say in the 2nd period, the final would be over, and again, we'd more than likely be waiting on the consi matches to finish before we could move on to the next weight. Before, the next championship final could begin immediately following the fall. Once again --- added wait time.

5) The PA announcer will call each of these matches to their respective mats. So now, FOUR matches will be called per weight class instead of one. That will increase the length of the round.

6) After completion of a weight class, wrestlers will be scrambling to hug parents, kiss girlfriends, put on warm-ups, etc., before making their way to the awards stand for pictures. That used to be true of just the finalists. Now it's true for all eight place-winners per weight class. Odds are now greatly increased that we'll have to wait on someone to make their awards stand appearance.

Supposedly this move was made to give arena workers and tournament officials more time to turn the arena around between AA and AAA sessions. They're in for a rude surprise when they find they have EVEN LESS time this year. I can't believe no one thought of this!
Marty Moose
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Re: PIAA finals - no longer alone

Postby RichB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:15 am

Marty, Are you sure about that old start time of 2:00 PM? The program i have handy (2007) showed 2:30 AA finals. In any case AAA consolations will not begin at 6:00 PM but at 7:00 with the finals. I do think the PIAA will suceed at having more turnaround time between Saturday rounds, and wrap up with the 285 medals a little earlier (although for threasons you specified likely by no more than 15-30 minutes.

But I am not here to praise the new schedule but to bury it.

Follows is my suggestion for a PIAA individual tournament schedule, alternative to the Idea of keeping the schedule similar to the last two decades but having consolation finals at the same time as championship finals. Obviously not something that could be done for the 2012 championship, as tickets are out and schedules printed.

Thursday and Friday. 6 mats the entire time. 3 sessions for each classification. Each Session about 3 to 3+1/3 hours so plenty of time for exit and entry (100-120 minutes between sessions). Wrestling would begin at 9:00AM both days and end at 10 PM both days.

Preliminaries AA Thur Morning (9:00) - AAA Thur afternoon (2:00). NO CONSOLATIONS. One big advantage - losers get about 9 hours (or overnight) to get their heads straight.

Quarterfinals and First (only) consolations - AA Thurs evening (7:00) --- AAA Fri AM(9:00). Again losers of the quarters do not have to almost immediately face someone who is rested from winning his first consolation the day before. Probably use 4 mats for quarters (not simultaneous start each weight) until Quarterfinals are over - then all six mats to wrap up that consolation round.

Semifinals and 2nd and 3rd consolations AA Fri Afternoon(2:00) AAA Fri Evening(7:00). Semifinals on two center mats. Simultaneous start for both Semis in each weight class - that should take about 3 hours. On the outer four mats two rounds of consolations using next available mat. Should take about 2 hours for 2nd consolation round and 1 hour for 3rd consolation round. Again Semifinal losers have overnight to get ready to wrestle semifinal-consolations.

Saturday-AA, start at 9:00 AM. Three mats, Consolation Semifinals followed immediately by all 7th place bouts - then by all 5th + 3rd place bouts (That is to -- say the 14 7th place bouts then the 5th for 106, 3rd for 106, 5th for 113, 3rd for 113.) Parade of AA Champions at 11:30 106 championship at 11:40 (leave the 2 outside mats up). AA wrestling should end 2:30 maybe 2:45.

AAA same format as AA consolotion Semifinals at 4:30 Parade of Champions 7:00 wrestling should end no later than 10:15 PM

Disadvantages: Semifinal mathces will be accompanied by 4 consie matches - but because of simultaneous start (heck there should be time to give thorough introduction of the 4 semifinalists) the semis will be easy to follow. This is the exact format NCAA D1 has done on Friday night for decades.

AA semifinals Friday afternoon - AAA semifinals Friday night. Will this hurt attendance? It might hurt AA attendance Friday - but should help it Saturday because the 3rd to 6th place guys will have two matches not one. So if there will be a negative to this plan, it is most likely the loss of of some fans who traditionally come for just AAA, just Saturday.


Bottom Line - we may lose some less serious fans, but I think it is so much fairer for the kids - to not force guys to wrestle a consi match an hour or two after getting out of the championship bracket. And the finals will remain purely a one mat event. Possibly semifinal dual coverage could be done for TV.
Stay Thirsty, My Friends
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Re: PIAA finals - no longer alone

Postby mercyville » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:46 am

I really do not like the finals are going to be arranged at all...the bottom line is, when that finals match is going on, it should be the only match. Those two kids earned the right to be the only ones wrestling and deserves the attention of the entire crowd.
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Re: PIAA finals - no longer alone

Postby Spladle » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:32 am

I no longer go to the PIAA Championships after attending for about 40 years!! Their first bad move IMO was going to six mats in the new arena (the old arena with 4 mats was a lot better). Then they added weight classes and now have about two too many, especially in the heavier weights. That really adds additional wrestling. So now, to compensate, they have to speed everything up and hold all placement matches simultaneously. As a fan, you basically are able to view far less wrestling than ever. You just can't enjoy watching all those matches at one time. It is a "cattle call". The PIAA has made a mess of the greatest high school sporting event in PA!!!! Oh how I long for the Golden Years of h.s wrestling!!
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Location: Washington County

Re: PIAA finals - no longer alone

Postby Spladle » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:45 pm

Oh, and one other thing that adds time - awarding 8 places!!! That's 50% of the wrestlers!! Go back to medals for only six place-winners which makes getting a medal more significant!!
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