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NYS Intercollegiate Championships

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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby machine158 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:40 pm

HatchetJack wrote:Will be interesting to see. It's possible Honis can beat Ben D but is that in the team's best interest? Ben D can score big on almost any opponent and maybe his upside at this weight is too much to ignore. Keeping Ben H down around 200 does not help anyone unless the thinking is he is going to go 197 over Ben D. If you were playing this in terms of what's best for the team right now, you'd probably ask Ben H to stay around 215-220 and ride out heavy until Sweaney is really back. For what it is worth, if Ben H can beat Sweaney 285 then what's really best for the team? Hoping Koll works this out for all the kids involved.


I think the problem with your recommendation is the NCAA weight rules. I think Honis would have to stay closer to the 197 any time he weighed in if he still wants to wrestle at that weight. Maybe someone could enlighten us on what that rule is??? My question is this...why would he want to bump up if he can beat BD? He was round of 12 last year at that weight correct? The other variable is Sweany. We know from his freshman year that he is capable of beating some quality wrestlers. If he returns to that form....I don't think either Honis or Darmstadt will be wrestling heavies. Lets not count out Ziggy either. A bad preseason tournament does not define you.
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby mountainred » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:46 am

machine158 wrote:
HatchetJack wrote:Will be interesting to see. It's possible Honis can beat Ben D but is that in the team's best interest? Ben D can score big on almost any opponent and maybe his upside at this weight is too much to ignore. Keeping Ben H down around 200 does not help anyone unless the thinking is he is going to go 197 over Ben D. If you were playing this in terms of what's best for the team right now, you'd probably ask Ben H to stay around 215-220 and ride out heavy until Sweaney is really back. For what it is worth, if Ben H can beat Sweaney 285 then what's really best for the team? Hoping Koll works this out for all the kids involved.


I think the problem with your recommendation is the NCAA weight rules. I think Honis would have to stay closer to the 197 any time he weighed in if he still wants to wrestle at that weight. Maybe someone could enlighten us on what that rule is??? My question is this...why would he want to bump up if he can beat BD? He was round of 12 last year at that weight correct? The other variable is Sweany. We know from his freshman year that he is capable of beating some quality wrestlers. If he returns to that form....I don't think either Honis or Darmstadt will be wrestling heavies. Lets not count out Ziggy either. A bad preseason tournament does not define you.


Just so we know the actual numbers:

Honis was 1-2 at last year's NCAAs. His win was versus 9-13 Marcus Harrington. He was 3-8 against ranked wrestlers with a win over #20 Rocco Haywood (avenged by an unranked Rocco at easterns) and two wins over Princeton's Harner.

Sweany was 17-14 on the mat as a freshman, and finished 6th at EIWA. His record against ranked wrestlers was 1-8, with six of the losses being majors or worse. He did beat #13 Collin Jensen and hold #4 Ty Walz to a 6-4 decision. Last year he was 12-11, with a SV loss to Vollaro and LBF to Haines in his only matches with ranked wrestlers.
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby machine158 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:14 am

Just so we know the actual numbers:

Honis was 1-2 at last year's NCAAs. His win was versus 9-13 Marcus Harrington. He was 3-8 against ranked wrestlers with a win over #20 Rocco Haywood (avenged by an unranked Rocco at easterns) and two wins over Princeton's Harner.

Sweany was 17-14 on the mat as a freshman, and finished 6th at EIWA. His record against ranked wrestlers was 1-8, with six of the losses being majors or worse. He did beat #13 Collin Jensen and hold #4 Ty Walz to a 6-4 decision. Last year he was 12-11, with a SV loss to Vollaro and LBF to Haines in his only matches with ranked wrestlers.[/quote]

Thats good data. Thanks for posting. Honis lost a squeaker at OK St last year that he should have won. Sweany also had quality wins over Goodhart & Garret Ryan and lost a nai biter to Billy Miller.

I'm curious if anyone is familiar with the weight assessment and weigh in rules?
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby HatchetJack » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:19 am

I am not sure the relevance of what you are comparing as they seem like different stats altogether. Lifetime Honis has won 83% of his matches and Sweaney is a bit better than .500 at 34-27. Honis lost in the NCAAs but did indeed qualifiy. U also fail to mention that he beat a former AA in Harner 2x.

If they want to put the best wrestler on the mat at 285 who will win the most matches, Honis is the guy - but that's my opinion. I am sure the coaches will make the right call.
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby JDALU75 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:54 am

machine158 wrote:I'm curious if anyone is familiar with the weight assessment and weigh in rules?

You're talking about a guy weighing in for 285 and then cutting back to 197? Wrestlers are permitted to lose 1.5% of their weight each week. If a wrestler weighed 200 for a 285 weigh-in today, he could cut 3.0 pounds (1.5% of 200) to make a 197 weigh-in a week from today. Weighing in at 220 takes 197 pounds out of the picture for a good while.
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby HatchetJack » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:20 pm

Sorry - I think Honis is at his best when he wrestles 197. I do think from a team perspective that he is a better solution than Sweaney at 285 if he was committed to this weight full time - not going back and forth. Coaches know best so if Sweaney is the best 285 and Honis wants back to 197, then so be it. Question is whether he has 197 to go back to and start? I I assume Honis and Darmstadt are close but maybe Darmstadt could score more team points in a dual from a style perspective. The reality is that asking someone to bump up to heavy once the season starts is a tall order.
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby mountainred » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:29 pm

HatchetJack wrote:I am not sure the relevance of what you are comparing as they seem like different stats altogether. Lifetime Honis has won 83% of his matches and Sweaney is a bit better than .500 at 34-27. Honis lost in the NCAAs but did indeed qualifiy. U also fail to mention that he beat a former AA in Harner 2x.

If they want to put the best wrestler on the mat at 285 who will win the most matches, Honis is the guy - but that's my opinion. I am sure the coaches will make the right call.


I did? Pretty sure I specifically noted that two of Ben's three wins over a ranked wrestler were against Princeton's Harner.

i hate to be a jerk about this because I like Ben; he's a maximum effort guy who will do what the team needs. But he has not won 83% of his matches lifetime. He's 43-23 (65%) with all but one of those at 197 (He's 5-1 this year). Sweany is 34-27 (56%) with all of them at heavy.
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby ugarte » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:26 pm

mountainred wrote:i hate to be a jerk about this because I like Ben; he's a maximum effort guy who will do what the team needs. But he has not won 83% of his matches lifetime. He's 43-23 (65%) with all but one of those at 197 (He's 5-1 this year). Sweany is 34-27 (56%) with all of them at heavy.

I also think if you read between the lines of Koll's last update, he's indicating that the cut to 197 isn't a cakewalk for Honis.
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Re: NYS Intercollegiate Championships

Postby Red Blades » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:28 am

After yesterday, I may have a tough time making 197 too.
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