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NCAA 184 Seeding

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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby ugarte » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:11 pm

Tempest in a teapot. If everyone agrees that Hamlin's injury was legit - not a default to protect his seed - the NCAA seeding is appropriate.

I'm comfortable with letting the NCAA punish people who duck competition to protect a seed while giving a pass to legit injuries. If experience shows that people/schools abuse the privilege, take it away and punish all conference tournament defaults but until then let this rest.

I'd probably feel differently if Hamlin/Bosak were a more historically even match but Hamlin just keeps winning H2H. No complaints from me about putting Bosak 4th.

Probably more upset with Garrett being seeded at 6 but looking at his record, his losses are all "good losses" but IIRC his best win isn't particularly notable.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby weh » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:21 pm

Red Blades wrote:
Allen Brown wrote:Does anyone want to detail the Bailey/Hamlin semi-final bout, at the time it was stopped, including how the scoring go up to the stoppage?


Allen, I can't recall if there were any points scored, but I believe the semifinal match was stopped pretty quickly; and Hamlin was clearly struggling in quarters, Thomkins had scored at least one takedown before Hamlin got the fall. It seems that Robert was on a short leash for semis, and once it was clear he was not able, Santoro stopped it.


Mason Bailey was leading Hamlin 4-1 and riding Hamlin tough before Santoro stopped the semi-final match in the first period. Hamlin was clearly not Hamlin so the stoppage was legit - Hamlin also took a long injury time-out in the 1/4s. I will be surprised if he is healthy for NCAAs - needed is some of that magic spray that we see help athletes recover instantly at the Olympics.

In the dual Hamlin beat Bailey 4-2 on a late 3rd period TD in a very competitive match - but in the dual ahamlin was able to stop Bailey from finishing on a couple of very deep singles in the first period. At EIWAs Hamlin gave up the same shots w/o much resistance.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby seawolf » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:19 pm

Ugarte - I respect your opinion but I disagree. This is too much of a judgment call. I hate saying that some people will game the system but we know they will, happened in other conference tournaments from what I'm reading. These guys need to step onto the mat each time and prove their seed. An injury sucks, it really does, but it should impact where they fall in the seeding if they can't even qualify through their qualifying tournament. Next time, if you have a twinge, just sit out ... all good! Yuck, that doesn't get my vote. Who's to say it is a twinge vs a real injury? Some NCAA panel far removed. Not good. Way too much of a judgment call.

Anyone remember what happened with Dustin Schlatter a few years ago. I can't quite recall. Seemed to be akin to this. Did his seed get hurt?

Perhaps Rich B is right and my memory is not long. Perhaps this is a common precedent.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby seawolf » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:20 pm

Edit - double post
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby scribe » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:31 pm

'10 Schlatter injured his leg later in the season. He weighed in for the Big 10 tournament and immediately defaulted his first match and second matches in an effort to get the qualifying spot. Which he did but dropped down to the 6th seed. I cannot recall where he was ranked prior to the injury and am too lazy to look that up. That would probably inform how the seeding was handled in comparison to Hamlin (who actually tried to wrestle).
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Mat Rat2 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:51 am

I do not remember exactly where he was ranked either but I know it was higher than sixth. That seeding committee got it right, this years got it wrong.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby scribe » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:47 am

I think it is a bad idea to punish (drop in seed) a wrestler who worked the entire season to earn that seed, but fall short with an injury in the qualifying tournament. However, it is a bit worse to not reward someone close in seed who wins the same conference tournament.

This one was a no brainer and I hope Bosak wrestles with anger.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby JJH » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:31 am

If Bosak wrestles with anger, he'll probably lose. Better he should use his natural intelligence and athletic skills, of which he appears to have plenty. JJH
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby scribe » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:05 pm

I'm his sensei, and I demand wrestle with anger!
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Subzero » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:08 pm

scribe wrote:I think it is a bad idea to punish (drop in seed) a wrestler who worked the entire season to earn that seed, but fall short with an injury in the qualifying tournament. However, it is a bit worse to not reward someone close in seed who wins the same conference tournament.

This one was a no brainer and I hope Bosak wrestles with anger.


As I think Gimp mentioned on another thread, do we know for sure that Bosak wasn't rewarded? I mean he obviously wasn't rewarded enough to go to the 3 seed (which I thought he would be), but did his win and Hamlin's loss end up as a few extra numbers in the crazy seeding algorithm, and the results were still the same? In other words, maybe it did close the gap, but not enough to switch seeds according to the number-crunching computer? How much human oversight is there with the new system, do we know?
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Subzero » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:13 pm

PS I should probably have left this topic alone, as I think everyone is about wiped out from all the seeding talk.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Red Blades » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:32 pm

scribe wrote:I'm his sensei, and I demand wrestle with anger!


I think we need to sign Scribe up for some anger management. Either that, or put a singlet on him and send him out onto the mat! :P :lol:
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby scribe » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:38 pm

I used to send sensei command emails to Rob Koll. I think he musta started directing them to his spam folder. :|
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby D3 for LU » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:12 am

Wait, wait, don't tell me... :P

:shock: will sensei-scribe demand Bosak to sweep the leg?!? :shock:

:twisted: OH the HUMANITY!!! :twisted:
(Bad sensei, BAD! ...no bowl of rice-a-roni for you! :P )


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