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NCAA 184 Seeding

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NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Mat Rat2 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:20 am

So, based on what happened at the EIWA's how do you now see the seedings for 184 at the NCAA's? Going in to this weekend it was;

1) Ruth , no question about this
2) Bennett, he beat Hamlin 2-1, is undefeated and beat Loder 5-3 today to win the MAC so he is solid as #2
3) Hamlin losses to Ruth 9-7, Bennett 2-1 and OT win over Bosak
4) Bosak , 7-3 loss to Ruth and OT to Hamlin, defending champion at this weight. Wins over Steinhaus and Inen.
5) Steinhaus very respectable showing against Ruth in the Big 10 finals.
6) Loder Northern Iowa
7) Sheplock Maryland
8) Inen Nebraska, didn't notice where he finished in the Big Ten probably needed third place finish to maintain this spot.

So the big question is how far does Hamlin drop if in fact he even wrestles, which I certainly hope he does. I would guess he goes to #4 behind Bosak and in front of Steinhaus? What do you guys think?
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Mat Rat2 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:39 am

It look like Inen got fourth, beaten by Lofthouse 8-1 so he may move down down from #8.

Also I noticed on another board that some are projecting that Hamlin could fall as low as #8. Again this assumes that he is wrestling and that he gets a wild card which I am sure he will if he is entered.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Asa Packer » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:03 am

B1G results below, so I'll play.
1. Ruth 2. Bennett 3. Bosak 4. Steinhaus
5. Hamlin then, Loder/Sheptock/Lofthouse/Ihnen (you pick 'em)
Of course, I'm hoping Hamlin is healthy and entered.
I don't want a repeat of Troy Letters' Senior NCAAs, which was heartbreaking to watch.

184 pounds
1st – Ed Ruth (Penn State) dec. Kevin Steinhaus (Minnesota), 5-3
3rd – Ethen Lofthouse (Iowa) dec. Josh Ihnen (Nebraska), 8-1
5th – C.J. Magrum (Ohio State) dec. Tony Dallago (Illinois), 5-1
7th – Chris Heald (Michigan) dec. Luke Sheridan (Indiana), 3-1 SV
Darian Cruz, 2017 NCAA Champion at 125 lbs!!!
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Red Blades » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:32 am

OK, I'll give it a shot.

Looking mostly at final coaches rankings, then final records among the top 12, I've got:

1 Edward Ruth 28-0
2 Ben Bennett 27-0
3 Steve Bosak 20-2
4 Kevin Steinhaus 25-2
5 Jimmy Sheptock 33-3
6 Robert Hamlin 21-3
7 Ryan Loder 27-4
8 Jacob Swartz 25-3
9 Josh Ihnen 22-6
10 Dan Rinaldi 26-6
11 E. Lofthouse 15-7
12 Christopher Chionuma 25-8

Note Bosak has the head to head win vs. Steinhaus. Loder has the head to head over Swartz, Ihnen does as well, but also 3 more losses.

If this scenario plays out, we will get a Bosak / Hamlin matchup in QF's!
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby aro3eb » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:49 am

I'm not sure Hamlin drops from 3 all the way to 6 but who knows. Obviously you have to count the result even if he defaulted, but I don't think he'll be punished for 2 conf tourney losses the same way Storley will. Too bad Bennett and Bosak didn't get to wrestle in the dual this year. I have it
1) Ruth
2) Bennett
3) Bosak
4) Steinhaus
5) Hamlin
6) Sheptock
7) Loder
8) Swartz
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby JJH » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:52 am

Most coaches will ignore an injury default loss for seeding purposes. We shall see within a day or so. JJH
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Allen Brown » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:20 pm

^^^Does anyone want to detail the Bailey/Hamlin semi-final bout, at the time it was stopped, including how the scoring go up to the stoppage? Some Navy watchers had predicted after the Navy/Lehigh dual meet, that Bailey would beat Hamlin at the EIWA tournament, and there were off-forum predictions after the first-round of the EIWA tournament that Bailey probably would win on TD's. I assume Lehigh fans, of course, want Hamlin to have a Mulligan for his default to Bailey.

Thanks for any reply that details the bout up to the stoppage, and accurate NCAA seeding is always nice to have though hard to figure.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby aro3eb » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:40 pm

You have to count the default or why have the tournament? It's a loss but if there are good losses and bad losses, this is the best kind. If he and Bosak wrestled and Bosak won then Bosak moves ahead in the seedings. If you can default your way around that risk with no repercussions then conf tourneys are going to get a lot more boring.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby CJC » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:49 pm

Tough to seed because of Hamlin's injury and Bosak's lost time.

I'd go with 1. Ruth 2. Bosak 3. Steinhaus 4. Bennet 5. Hamlin
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby JJH » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:01 pm

If the coaches don't ignore the injury default, I think it would be fair to seed Hamlin 6th. That way, he would have to go through Bosak in order to get to the semis. Some poetic justice there, don't you think? JJH
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Red Blades » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:31 pm

Allen Brown wrote:Does anyone want to detail the Bailey/Hamlin semi-final bout, at the time it was stopped, including how the scoring go up to the stoppage?


Allen, I can't recall if there were any points scored, but I believe the semifinal match was stopped pretty quickly; and Hamlin was clearly struggling in quarters, Thomkins had scored at least one takedown before Hamlin got the fall. It seems that Robert was on a short leash for semis, and once it was clear he was not able, Santoro stopped it.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby Red Blades » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:33 pm

JJH wrote:If the coaches don't ignore the injury default, I think it would be fair to seed Hamlin 6th. That way, he would have to go through Bosak in order to get to the semis. Some poetic justice there, don't you think? JJH


John, I was thinking the same thing - not the easiest path for either one, but that would be a fitting finish to this classic rivalry!
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby LUchico » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Allen Brown wrote:^^^Does anyone want to detail the Bailey/Hamlin semi-final bout, at the time it was stopped, including how the scoring go up to the stoppage? Some Navy watchers had predicted after the Navy/Lehigh dual meet, that Bailey would beat Hamlin at the EIWA tournament, and there were off-forum predictions after the first-round of the EIWA tournament that Bailey probably would win on TD's. I assume Lehigh fans, of course, want Hamlin to have a Mulligan for his default to Bailey.

Thanks for any reply that details the bout up to the stoppage, and accurate NCAA seeding is always nice to have though hard to figure.


Alan, mulligan might not be the way of putting it as it implys a mistake. Hamlin has been wrestling at a high level this year (I think better than last year) and absent the injury I really think the only EIWA wrestler with a chance of beating him would have been Bosak (factor in whatever bias you suspect, but I am trying to be as objective as possible).
After the injury, it was a completely different story. He simply couldn't react to defend his legs. I believe he was taken down twice in the quarters and at least once in the semis before it was stopped pretty quickly as red Blades said. And to me it seemed clear that his QF opponent wasn't as good as Bailey but was having his way until Robert rallied and pinned him fairly quickly (probably adrenelin pumping and blocking pain).
The real issue here is if he recovers enough and soon enough to be awarded a berth and if he can wrestle his best. Lots of unknowns there that I can't shed any light on.
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby scribe » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:21 pm

Red Blades wrote:
JJH wrote:If the coaches don't ignore the injury default, I think it would be fair to seed Hamlin 6th. That way, he would have to go through Bosak in order to get to the semis. Some poetic justice there, don't you think? JJH


John, I was thinking the same thing - not the easiest path for either one, but that would be a fitting finish to this classic rivalry!


What? Bosak will have to wrestle semis twice, because he presented himself in the EIWA finals where Hamlin was no where to be found?

I think the seeding committee will have to be sensible or some coaches will be rightfully angry. Hell, Sanderson might not be too happy if Hamlin is anywhere near Ruth on his side of the bracket. If Hamlin goes, it's prudent to assume he is 100% (as close to it as anyone else).
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Re: NCAA 184 Seeding

Postby NJDan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:32 pm

I think Hamlin should drop to 4, that is switch with Bosak, but no further. If he falls all the way to 6, that would screw Bosak. Of course, Ruth might prefer that Hamlin fall to five. Though I don't think Ruth would be too worried either way.
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