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Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

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Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby know it all » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:46 pm

The Midland's at one time were the top of the chart for tough holiday tournament. It was in it's beginning as tough or tougher than the NCAA tournament.
Now with the Scuffle and that Duals thing that they have in Florida, I am not sure that any of these tournaments are the all that.

If you take Lehigh and PSU out of the Scuffle and Iowa out of the Midlands, what do you really have these days?

In the end we have some quality up an comers coming out of the Midland tournament for next year.
We should have a very good showing at the Scuffle latter in the NEW YEAR.

To many places to go and then someone added that Duals thing to water down the rest.
H**L OKY State and others don't even send their starters to the Scuffle, so talk about watered down.

Thoughts?????

I still think that the Midlands is the tournament to go to. Temperatures are below freezing and the wind is blowing because its winter time in Chicago.
Chattanooga its above freezing and the wind never blows.
Florida is full of old timers that don't know anything.
(TROLLING)
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby WallyCKP » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:14 pm

>>Thoughts?????

Go with the great Yogi Berra: "If people don't want to come out to the ballpark, how are you going to stop them?"

The LUWrestlingNews pre-billed (a month ago) the fact that a significant number of major powers in recent years were ducking the two big New Year's events and might well do it again.
The Centre Daily TImes in Univ Park just 4 days ago published that PSU couldn't break Okla State's SS team pt record "because of far more competition this year vs. last" - citing "OklaSt, MI, NCS, VT along with Lehigh and UNI" vs just Missouri & Lehigh last year. Oops.

It's increasingly obvious with the shrinking (then disappearance) of National Duals and now the shrinking of quality in both tournaments that the uber-powers are telling the fans, media & NWCA: "Stop creating unnecessary conflicts incl avoidable injury risks .... regular season duals + the post-season are what matters most to us." That was certainly good enough in the good old days. What happens next is anybody's guess.
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby LU in NJ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:49 pm

>>>>>>>>>>Extend the holiday period to earlier in Dec and then try telling cu that CKLV wasn't a tough tourney.

Appears a number of teams opted for the earlier CKLV plus the holiday duals in Fla and Italy ( go figure) and both Midlands and the Scuffle feel the impact.

I have no problem with the Scuffle having fewer teams and being a little less of a meat grinder. Just one fan's opinion.

It's a great time to be a Lehigh wrestling fan.
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby Red Blades » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:53 am

know it all wrote:Florida is full of old timers that don't know anything.(TROLLING)


Sounds like a great fit for Lehigh fans! :twisted:

(Sorry, just had to take the bait! :roll: )

Happy New Year, ya'll! :wink:
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby JDALU75 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 am

Red Blades wrote:Happy New Year, ya'll!

If we make it that far.
“The immortal gods are wont to allow those persons whom they wish to punish for their guilt sometimes a greater prosperity and longer impunity, in order that they may suffer the more severely from a reverse of circumstances.” - Gaius Julius, aka Caesar
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby JAD77 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:49 am

Make wrestling a one semester sport, kicking it off with the Holiday tournaments, then straight through with duals, and ending with the NCAA's in late April. Make it easier on the student athletes and avoid the huge gap in the middle of the season.
Then again, less time to recover from an injury. Who knows.
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby LUEngineer » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:02 am

What huge gap in the middle are you referring to when we just finished December duals with Edinboro, Michigan and Penn State then Penn/Drexel before a short break for finals and Christmas and then right off to Southern Scuffle. While I enjoy the November/December duals it might actually be a nice idea to start the season with the Christmas duals so long as we can still see the type duals in January with the our of conference big guys like Michigan and Penn State before we go to the conference scheduling in mid february. I like the idea also of not being against the NCAA basketball with the mid April conclusion.

So I vote to also move to a second semester sport for the sake of the student athlete not having to ramp up for travel and dual meets during first semester.
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby JAD77 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:19 am

The huge gap I'm referring to is 3 1/2 weeks since the last dual, and another 2 weeks until the next. The tournaments are nice, but I can't go see them in person, and that's a month and a half in the middle of the season that I'm jonesing for a dual so I can see some live action in person. I get the reason for the break, but it still sucks as a fan.
As an aside, my family and I went to a Phantoms hockey game at the PPL center on Friday. For those who live nearby and haven't been there- it's a great venue. I hope the Penn State match was worth it financially, as that would be a great place to return to the next time we host.
Sorry for going off track, but that was such an awesome dual experience.
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby CJC » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:05 pm

I think it's a good time to let the wrestlers take some time off over the holidays (semester break).
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby WallyCKP » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:36 pm

PPL offered a nice financial bonus, yes, that's confirmed although the exact amount is a state secret

I've long voted for 2nd semester sport with April Nationals; that is if I had a vote (don't).
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby WallyCKP » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:44 pm

Forgot to reply to this one:

>>>??I think it's a good time to let the wrestlers take some time off over the holidays (semester break).

... Sounds nice but, while I can't prove anything concrete, this seems to have been an unintentional segue into tourney injuries from taking time off for finals, then for Xmas. Most LU fans feel we've had our share of holiday dings since Troy Letters' sr year was shredded via his Scuffle injury in '05-06 - one of 5 guys who withdrew from that tourney. Hatchett and Kennedy did return to place but each lost six weeks, as did Scotty last Jan-Feb. Ironically our first Midlands injury didn't happen in Evanston; Mike Lieberman cracked a vertebrae in his neck 10 min from home after he & Mark drove both ways to Midlands. He, too, missed 6 weeks but won EIWA and placed NCAA 3. Pete Yozzo also missed 5 weeks after a Dec knee injury, returned to win NCAAs
All of the above were seniors; all but Troy placed; say, maybe more guys should take off 5-6 wks late in the year?! (that was a joke, Coach Hughes; put that dagger away)
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby JDALU75 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:58 pm

WallyCKP wrote:Coach Hughes; put that dagger away

You really think Coach Hughes needs a dagger?
“The immortal gods are wont to allow those persons whom they wish to punish for their guilt sometimes a greater prosperity and longer impunity, in order that they may suffer the more severely from a reverse of circumstances.” - Gaius Julius, aka Caesar
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Re: Holiday Tournaments are getting weak???

Postby RichB » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:28 pm

Am I correct in assuming that lehigh's final schedule is still basically 2-3 days of "reading and study" (no classes), followed by a week and a half of 3 hour finals. (as opposed to most schools one week of 2 hour finals????
------------------------------------------------
Anyway, My "ideal" D1 wrestling schedule:

Nov 1 (maybe 7-10 s later) official practice begins.

Dec 14-23, one day individual, no team score tournaments. 2 events, 10 matches(maybe fewer), max for each individual. Events could range from the size of Princeton or Lock Haven, up to Reno or UNI.

After Christmas: Midlands Dec 28-29(one day early than now), Dec 30-31 Cliff Keen Las Vegas(cause you might as well be in Vegas for New Years eve. Jan 1-2 Scuffle. Las Vegas would switch to more like the other two, i.e Redshirts and more than 1 guy per weight. No individual could compete in more than one but schools could send guys to 2 even 3 events, like LU does.

Other 1 day individual events could be at the same time, or continue throughout the season. Either with or without team scoring. The events could be either be pure traditional bracket events (all consolations led to third- kind of limited to 16 entrants); or consolations where earlier losers can only reach 5th or 9th; or pool style tournaments that don't lead to championships (like "Albany") ; or pool style that leads to championships.

Presidents day weekend. Two-day dual meet tournament weekend. 80 teams would be involved. That means a couple of D2, maybe D3 NAIA teams would be included. 20 teams in each region these 4 regional tournaments would be hosted by schools with essentially no thought of being in the top 16 nationwide. The top 4 from each region(as selected by national polls), instead of going to the local tournament, would go the national event, in Chicago, probably at the Allstate Arena (next to O'Hare) possibly where midlands just was held(Sears Arena) or elsewhere. But Chicago is both the most central point to drive to, and about the easiest to fly to. (Teams would be expected to not stay in the same "regional" year after year. They would be more like the Regionals in NCAA B-Ball. Lehigh could be "assigned" to the Regional at Air Force or Northern Colorado. Stanford to George Mason or Hofstra, etc). And I would say the 5 tournaments would be 4 meets for every team. Less of a meat grinder.
Conference individual tournaments would be the Weekend after the finals of the D1 Basket ball championships.

Individual nationals two weeks later.

But, as Denny says, I don't get a vote.
Stay Thirsty, My Friends
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